QRZ! Ham Radio 5/QRZ Ham Radio Callsign Database - Volume 5.iso/digests/infoham/941113.txt

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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 13:09:27 PDT
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Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #1113
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Info-Hams Digest            Tue, 11 Oct 94       Volume 94 : Issue 1113

Today's Topics:
          Callsign/address databases-privacy issue (2 msgs)
                            FM subcarrier
                             Get Over It
                      Info-Hams Digest V94 #1101
                        Need Help With IC2GAT
                    Repeater/Tower noise problem?
                          St. Louis Hamfest
                   subscribe rec.radio.amateur.misc
                         TUTORIAL:  dB & dBm
                        WANTED: TAC-TEC 310sx
                      WTB: Radar gun... (5 msgs)

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
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Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1994 21:58:02 -0400
From: [e-mail] (AB4TF)
Subject: Callsign/address databases-privacy issue

In article <37c6sf$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dennis
Henderson) writes:

Obviously, not much can be done for your privacy if you are already listed
in a publication or on-line database.  However, send a certified letter to
those organizations that are publishing lists of amateurs and request that
your name be removed from all future issues.  I suspect that they have an
obligation to remove you at your request...but as I said, that doesn't do
anything for previous publications in which you may appear.

See a good lawyer.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1994 17:25:13 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Mike Benedict)
Subject: Callsign/address databases-privacy issue

>I'm concerned with having my name and address available publically
>via call books and the like.  I am very unconfortable having
>folks know I am not home (from overhearing my conversations) and
>being able to get my address from a public database.
>
>I notice on the 610 form that public access is granted to information
>on the form.  Is there a way to prevent the distribution?
>
>I hear a lot of folks on the local repeaters telling folks they
>are going on vacation.  Acces to callsign/address information can
>lead to one's house getting broken into.  I strongly suspect this
>in a recent burglary.
>
>Is there another route to privacy besides getting a PO box?

I used to use a PO box, but even that isn't going to stop someone.  Its a
simple matter to look up anyones address in the city directory which can be
found in your local library.  I don't think there is anyway of staying out of
that book (unfortunately).  I now have a rural route address so I don't worry
about it anymore.

Either way, I never mention my travel plans over the air.  I may talk about
where I've been after the fact, but never before.

Mike Benedict - KA9GSC

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1994 19:27:50 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ron Cole)
Subject: FM subcarrier

Albert Tyson ([e-mail]) wrote:
: How can a normal FM radio be used to receive subcarrier FM?

Well sort of.  You need a Subcarrier demodulator.  Somthing like a XR2211
will do the job.

Ron

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 94 12:54:53 GMT
From: William=E.=[e-mail]
Subject: Get Over It

>Maybe we SHOULD drop the questions on which frequency represents black in ATV
>operation, and stick to that which is truly common across all modes and bands?

isn't this FSK SSTV you're talking about here rather than ATV (that follows
regular broadcast standards for the most part)?

bill wb9ivr

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 94 16:18:37 GMT
From: Fitzgerald_Curt/[e-mail]
Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #1101

Item Subject: Message text
unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1994 17:02:32 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Need Help With IC2GAT

Obout a mouth ago I droped (oops) my IC2GAT.  I have not had very much
time to take an extensive look at the guts to see what the cause of my
problem is.  I get very low audio output from the speaker and also if
I connect an external speaker.  Maybe someone has had a similar problem
and could give me some advice.  I don't feel like sending it half
way across the country to get it fixed.


Thanks for the help,

Ryan, VE9BL

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1994 13:02:47 -0500
From: David_Bourque/[e-mail] (David Bourque/UB Networks)
Subject: Repeater/Tower noise problem?

OK,
 I've been trying to chase down a noise problem on a 2 meter repeater for over
a year now.  I'm running out of things to look at.  I'm down to guessing that I
have a noise generator on the tower itself but would like to solicit comments.
The installation is on a 160 foot tower, the 2 meter antenna is one of four at
the top.  Two of the other three are 222 and 449 repeaters.  The forth is a
control receiver antenna in the 222 band.  The tower also has several
commercial services on it.  One in the low band, one pager in the 154 range,
one pager at 929Mhz almost at the very top and also a CAP repeater in the 2
meter range.  The tower also has three stacked 40 meter yagis on it.  If you
can picture this you can see that it is a mess.  Oh, did I mention that the
tower also supports a 160 meter vertical off the south facing side?  Anyway,
not all the feedlines are jacketed.  This is where I think my problem arises.
I've theorizes that somewhere on the tower we've got a diode junction between
the tower and one of the feedlines.  Has anyone got any experience with this
kind of problem?  If so, how does it manifest itself.  What are the symptoms.
How can one prove it without replacing the feedline or insulating from the
tower.  In principle I know it should be done but it is not my tower and I
don't have complete control over what is on it.  I need some supporting
evidence before I go and put some effort into getting it fixed.  Just to
provide some more data points here is what has happened lately.  This summer a
new station master antenna was installed.  This replaced a Diamond brand that
was up there.  My noise problem got worse.  We replaced the 1/2 inch hardline
with 7/8 hardline two weeks ago.  My noise problem got worse.  The receiver was
tested using both an HP signal generator and by a commercial Motorola shop.
The repeater is a Motorola Micor.  With the antenna disconnected and the test
gear connected to the receiver we have no noise.  If I connect the signal
generator to an antenna on the bench I can hear the problem.  Now, the problem
sounds like desense.  Yet the transmitter is spectrally clean.  Full quiting
signals become very noisy or drop out completely for no apparent reason.  All
other transmitters at the site have also been confirmed as clean.  I'm running
out of things to look at.  Can anyone offer any suggestions?  All for now.
I've consumed enough bandwidth.
email me directly or post to the group, either is fine.
WB1FLD
David Bourque
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  5 Oct 94 20:46:00 -0640
From: [e-mail] (Tony Fischer)
Subject: St. Louis Hamfest

       The 3rd annual Halloween Hamfest will be held Saturday October
29th 1994 from 8:30 am to 2:00pm.  The location is the same as
previous years West County Tech. Hwy 40 & Maryville Centre Dr. in St.
Louis Mo. Talk-in will be on 146.34/94.  First prize will be a Yaesu
FT2500 2M mobile radio.  Vendor info please call Walt Garrett at
314-831-6918.

Tony

 * 1st 1.11 #3331 * At least those who drink know what to blame everything on

 ---
 * TRAVEL ONLINE: 81,000 files; 2,500 conferences, 110 game doors.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 94 12:24:43 GMT
From: William=E.=[e-mail]
Subject: subscribe rec.radio.amateur.misc

>>imagine if prodigy had usenet access. This may be the tip of the iceberg.
>guess what.....it does, and it should be showing up any day now......
>David Palmer                                   [e-mail]

oh geez, this is going to be interesting...will prodigy be censoring what goes
out, what comes in, or just attempting to cancel everything they find
objectionable?

i wonder if they still have a size limit to postings and mail?

will they make the P* users use vi for an editor..?

bill wb9ivr
(new email addrs for the pile: [e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:23:05 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Paul H. Bock)
Subject: TUTORIAL:  dB & dBm

                     USING AND UNDERSTANDING DECIBELS

                                    by

                          Paul H. Bock, Jr. K4MSG

Author's Note:  This tutorial was originally written for the use of
non-RF/analog engineers (digital, software) and non-engineers who
needed an easy-to-follow reference on the general use of the decibel.
I hope that some amateur operators may find it useful as well.

     While the historical accuracy of the comments relating to the
telephone company and telephone company engineers may be open to
question (the information as supplied to me was anecdotal), the
technical points made should be valid regardless of the exact turn
of history.


*General*

     The decibel, or dB, is a means of expressing either the gain
of an active device (such as an amplifier) or the loss in a passive
device (such as an attenuator or length of cable).  The decibel was
developed by the telephone company to conveniently express the gain
or loss in telephone transmission systems.  The decibel is best
understood by first discussing the rationale for its development.

     If we have two cascaded amplifiers as shown below, with power
gain factors A1 and A2 as indicted, the total gain is the product
of the individual gains, or A1 x A2.

     Input >-------- Amp #1 --------- Amp #2 ------> Output

                    A1 = 275          A2 = 55

     In the example, the total gain factor At = 275 x 55 = 15,125.
Now, imagine for a moment what it would be like to calculate the
total gain of a string of amplifiers.  It would be a cumbersome
task at best, and especially so if there were portions of the
cascade which were lossy and reduced the total gain, thereby
requiring division as well as multiplication.

     It was for the reason stated above that Bell Telephone
developed the decibel.  Thinking back to the rules for logarithms,
we recall that rather than multiplying two numbers we can add their
logarithms and then take the antilogarithm of this sum to find the
product we would have gotten had we multiplied the two numbers.
Mathematically,
                     log (A x B) = log A + log B

     If we want to divide one number into another, we subtract the
logarithm of the divisor from the logarithm of the dividend, or in
other words
                     log (A/B) = log A - log B

     The telephone company decided that it might be convenient to
handle gains and losses this way, so they invented a unit of gain
measurement called a "Bel," named after Alexander Graham Bell.
They defined the Bel as

                     Gain in Bels = log A

           where  A = Power amplification factor

     Going back to our example, we find that log 275 = 2.439 and
log 55 = 1.740, so the total gain in our cascade is

                     2.439 + 1.74 = 4.179 Bels

     It quickly occurred to the telephone company engineers that
using Bels meant they would be working to at least two decimal
places.  They couldn't just round things off to one decimal place,
since 4.179 bels is a power gain of 15,101 while 4.2 bels is a
power gain of 15,849, yielding an error of about 5%.  At that point
it was decided to express power gain in units which were equal to
one-tenth of a Bel, or in deci-Bels.  This simply meant that the
gain in Bels would be multiplied by 10, since there would be ten
times more decibels than Bels.  This changes the formula to

            Gain in decibels (dB) = 10 log A    (Eq. 1)

     Again using our example, the gain in the cascade is now

                    24.39 + 17.40 = 41.79 decibels

     The answer above is accurate, convenient to work with, and can
be rounded off to the first decimal place will little loss in
accuracy; 41.79 dB is a power gain of 15,101, while 41.8 dB is a
power gain of 15,136, so the error is only 0.23%.

     What if the power gain factor is less than one, indicating an
actual power loss?  The calculation is performed as shown above
using Equation 1, but the result will be different.  Suppose we
have a device whose power gain factor is 0.25, which means that it
only outputs one-fourth of the power fed into it?  Using Equation
1, we find
                     G = 10 log (0.25)

                     G = 10 (-0.60)

                     G = -6.0 dB

     The minus sign occurs because the logarithm of any number less
than 1 is always negative.  This is convenient, since a power loss
expressed in dB will always be negative.

     There are two common methods of using the decibel.  The first
is to express a known power gain factor in dB, as just described.
The second is to determine the power gain factor and convert it to
dB, which can all be done in one calculation.  The formula for this
operation is as follows:
                                  Po
                      G = 10 log ----          (Eq. 2)
                                  Pi

               where G  = Gain in dB
                     Po = Power output from the device
                     Pi = Power input to the device

     Both Po and Pi should be in the same units; i.e., watts,
milliwatts, etc.  Note that Equation 2 deals with power, not
voltage or current; these are handled differently when converted
to dB, and are not relevant to this discussion.  Below are two
examples of the correct application of Equation 2:

     Ex. 1:  An amplifier supplies 3.5 watts of output with an
           input of 20 milliwatts.  What is the gain in dB?

                                3.5 watts
                    G = 10 log ----
                                0.02 watts

                    G = 10 log (175)

                    G = 10 (2.24)

                    G = 22.4 dB


     Ex. 2:  A length of coaxial transmission line is being fed
           with 150 watts from a transmitter, but the power
           measured at the output end of the line is only 112
           watts.  What is the line loss in dB?

                               112 watts
                    G = 10 log ---
                               150 watts

                    G = 10 log 0.747

                    G = 10 (-0.127)

                    G = -1.27 dB


*Non-relative (Absolute) Uses of the Decibel*

     The most common non-relative, or absolute, use of the decibel
is the dBm, or decibel relative to one milliwatt.  It is different
from the dB because it represents, in physical terms, an absolute
amount of power which can be measured.

     The difference between "relative" and "absolute" can be
understood easily by considering temperature.  For example, if I
say that it is "20 degrees colder now than it was this morning,"
it's a relative measurement; unless the listener knows how cold it
was this morning, it doesn't mean anything in absolute terms.  If,
however, I say, "It was 20 degrees C this morning, but it's 20
degrees colder now," then the listener knows exactly what is meant;
it is now 0 degrees C.  This can be measured on a thermometer and
is referenced to an absolute temperature scale.

     So it is with dB and dBm.  A dB is merely a relative
measurement, while a dBm is referenced to an absolute quantity:
the milliwatt (1/1000 of a watt).  We can apply this concept to
Equation 1 as follows:

                     dBm = 10 log (P) (1000 mW/watt)

               where dBm = Power in dB referenced to 1 milliwatt
                       P = Power in watts

     For example, take the case where we have a power level of 1
milliwatt:

                 dBm = 10 log (0.001 watt) (1000 mW/watt)

                 dBm = 10 log (1)

                 dBm = 10 (0)

                 dBm = 0

     Thus, we see that a power level of 1 milliwatt is 0 dBm.  This
makes sense intuitively, since our reference power level is also
1 milliwatt.  If the power level was 1 watt, however, we find that

                 dBm = 10 log (1 watt) (1000 mW/watt)

                 dBm = 10 (3)

                 dBm = 30

     The dBm can also be negative, just like the dB; if our power
level is 1 microwatt, we find that

                 dBm = 10 log (1 x 10E-6 watt) (1000 mW/watt)

                 dBm = -30 dBm

     Since the dBm is an absolute amount of power, it can be
converted back to watts if desired.   Since it is in logarithmic
form it may also be conveniently combined with other dB terms,
making system analysis easier.  For example, suppose we have a
signal source with an output power of -70 dBm, which we wish to
connect to an amplifier having 22 dB gain through a cable having
8.5 dB loss.  What is the output level from the amplifier?  To find
the answer, we just add the gains and losses as follows:

                 Output = -70 dBm + 22 dB + (-8.5 dB)

                 Output = -70 dBm + 22 dB - 8.5 dB

                 Output = -56.5 dBm

     As a final note, power level may be referenced to other
quantities and expressed in dB form.  Below are some examples:

         dBW = Power level referenced to 1 watt

         dBk = Power level referenced to 1 kilowatt (1000 watts)

     One other common usage is dBc, which is a relative term like
dB alone.  It means "dB referenced to a carrier level" and is most
commonly seen in receiver specifications regarding spurious signals
or images.  For example, "Spurious signals shall not exceed -50
dBc" means that spurious signals will always be at least 50 dB less
than some specified carrier level present (which could mean "50 dB
less than the desired signal").

       * Paul H. Bock, Jr. K4MSG  * Principal Systems Engineer
(|_|)  * E-Systems/Melpar Div.    * Telephone: [phone] x2062
 | |)  * 7700 Arlington Blvd.     * Internet: [e-mail]
       * Falls Church, VA 22046   * Mailstop: N203

 "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1994 03:23:38 GMT
From: [e-mail] (E.Hutchinson-N8XHP)
Subject: WANTED: TAC-TEC 310sx

I am looking for Tac-Tec UHF or VHF radios...if you have any or know the
wearabouts of any...please let me know...


--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Eric M. Hutchinson - N8XHP            Grand Valley State University =
= * HAZMAT *              Allendale, Michigan             * BLS/CPR * =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[e-mail]-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 94 19:45:15 GMT
From: [e-mail] (David Breneman)
Subject: WTB: Radar gun...

JERRY NORMANDIN ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <373pj9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (E.Hutchinson-N8XHP) writes:
: >    I am looking to purchase a CHEAP, USED radar gun...X or K band
: >is not important.  Wanted to take surveys in the area for school project.
: MAKE SURE YOU USE CAUTION WHEN YOU USE THE RADAR GUN!! THEY CAUSE CANCER!
: That's why Laser RADAR is now used!

THAT'S NOT QUITE TRUE!! :-)  If you drive around in a car 10-12 hours
a day for 10 years with a radar gun in your lap, you'll definitely
hard boil the ol' familial eggs.  That's just natural selection at work.
I'll brush off the fact that there is no such thing as "Laser RADAR",
and comment that LIDAR accounts for only a small percentage of the
tax-collector's arsenal.  It's cumbersome, expensive, may pose health
threats of its own (ie, shining coherent infrared laser light into the
eyes of millions of motorists year after year could be dangerous as
well - although not to Officer Friendly).


--
David Breneman                        Email: [e-mail]
System Administrator,           Voice: [phone]  Fax: [phone]
Product Development Platforms
Digital Systems International, Inc.        Redmond, Washington,  U. S. o' A.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 94 12:32:55 GMT
From: William=E.=[e-mail]
Subject: WTB: Radar gun...

>I suggest you read up on bio physics!
>all matter, including our cell structure is bipolar.
>that's why gravity has an effect on our body

I guess you don't need to take classical mechanics and physics to get in the
laser program at the lincoln lab, eh?  I sure don't recall any bits about
"polarity" in the high school and college physics classes i had to take with
respect to gravity.

Of course, if you're trying to spill the beans on upsidaisyium, you'll find
Jay Ward beat you to the punch by about 30 years.

>I don't know about you but I wouldn't want a 250Watt RADAR sitting on my lap

i probably wouldn't either...but then i don't recall too many of those guns
available commercially ... i want to say that you're off by a couple of orders
of magnitude or more.  we are talking lightweight equipment here that's
operated off of car power, not a small 110V microwave oven.

bill wb9ivr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 04:48:46 GMT
From: [e-mail] (bill nelson)
Subject: WTB: Radar gun...

[e-mail] (Gary Coffman) writes:
: In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (bill nelson) writes:
: >[e-mail] (JERRY NORMANDIN) writes:
: >
: >: I suggest you read up on bio physics!
: >: all matter, including our cell structure is bipolar.
: >
: >What does this mean?
:
: It means cells are affected by electric fields, same way a bar magnet
: will align with an external magnetic field. It's the principle behind
: electrophoresis. During cell division, while the nucleus is splitting,
: the cell is particularly vulnerable to electric fields. As far as I
: know, magnetic fields aren't implicated in this at all.

Note that the person said "all matter". That is why I was wondering about
the usage of the term.

: >How did they do this?  All the ones I have seen had the transmitter in the
: >head - which was aimed at the automobile.  Kind of hard to do that if you
: >are holding it in your lap.  The readout unit may have been held in their
: >laps, however - and they may have contained a high voltage power supply.
:
: Well, obviously, the handheld radar guns used by police are *not* 250 watts.
: They are in fact in the range of 10 *milliwatts* to 25 *milliwatts*.

Correct.

: However, cops are in the habit of resting the guns in their laps when they
: aren't actively clocking a vehicle, and they *don't turn them off* for the
: entire shift. So they get a good near field dose to the testicles. Testicular
: cancer rates are higher among police who do traffic patrol. Figure what the
: power density is right at the mouth of a 17 db standard horn and you'll see
: the levels they are getting are above ANSI limits. This is also why you should
: never look into the antenna of a microwave transmitter, no matter if it is
: very low power. The ERP can still be above safety limits at very close range.

All the units I have seen have a trigger on them - so called "instant on"
units.  There might be a high EM field, but no microwaves. Are the cops so
stupid that they would rest the mouth of an active radar unit on their
testicles?  Highly unlikely.

Even if this were not true, I would expect the reflected waves to be much
higher than any leakage signal through the casing. Add in standing waves,
and you could get quite a few local hotspots - that would change position
every time the unit moved a fraction of an inch.

Maybe the get the cancer from the sugar in their doughnuts.

Bill

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 05:16:44 GMT
From: [e-mail] (David Finster)
Subject: WTB: Radar gun...

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (bill nelson) writes:
>From: [e-mail] (bill nelson)
>Subject: Re: WTB: Radar gun...
>Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:56:13 GMT

>[e-mail] (JERRY NORMANDIN) writes:
>:    My first job after college was as an engineer at Lincoln Lab with the
>: LASER Group!  Lasers are easily "absorbed".  They use a frequency of
>: light that is easily absorbed with  g.$a#*)(@@@@  , I don't want
>: to get into trouble.  Also LASER RADAR can be jammed just like
>: Microwave RADAR! You transmit the calibration signal!

>It can be absorbed - at least most of it can - if you are willing to
>paint the complete front end of your automobile with the proper substance.
>Windshields will also, in many cases, return a sufficiently strong signal.

>If they have a calibration signal. If they are using T and D radar, then
>there is no such signal.  Even if there was, the officer would know what
>was happening, just as they know with current radar. Such jamming happens
>to be highly illegal, for a number of reasons, and is likely to get you
>into far more trouble than a simple speeding ticket.

I'm not trying to start anything, simply looking for clarification.  Why would
it be illegal to transmit infrared laser?  I wasn't aware there were any
regulations on transmitting light of any frequency/pulse duration or
coherency.  Am I simply misinformed?  Or are there other laws in effect here?

I'll sit back and listen now...

-- Dave
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1994 05:57:35 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jean-Luc Picard)
Subject: WTB: Radar gun...

In article <[e-mail]>,
bill nelson <[e-mail]> wrote:
......
......
>
>: However, cops are in the habit of resting the guns in their laps when they
>: aren't actively clocking a vehicle, and they *don't turn them off* for the
>: entire shift. So they get a good near field dose to the testicles. Testicular
>: cancer rates are higher among police who do traffic patrol. Figure what the
>: power density is right at the mouth of a 17 db standard horn and you'll see
>: the levels they are getting are above ANSI limits. This is also why you should
>: never look into the antenna of a microwave transmitter, no matter if it is
>: very low power. The ERP can still be above safety limits at very close range.
>
>All the units I have seen have a trigger on them - so called "instant on"
>units.  There might be a high EM field, but no microwaves. Are the cops so
>stupid that they would rest the mouth of an active radar unit on their
>testicles?  Highly unlikely.
>
...
...
>
>Maybe the get the cancer from the sugar in their doughnuts.
>
>Bill

Actually, most of the officers that get this form of cancer are motorcycle
officers since they must rest their gun near this part of their body
when chasing a car.
Also the officers in autos may incidentally rest the gun there if they
throw it down in a hurry to chase a "speeder".
It's not done by choice, that's guaranteed...
--
 ________________________________________  |C ______________
  RAY STEIN                          __B_|/
  OSU Electrical Engineering             |\    <<--COOL!
 ----------------------------------------  |E ---------------

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 94 15:40:00 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Dr. H. Paul Shuch)

ReferencesH. Paul, Shuch)
Subject: Re: Bad News from VE3ONT

How disappointing!  But such is the nature of amateur radio endeavors.
Thanks so much to you and the group for trying so hard.  See you off
OSCAR 0 some other time.    Vy 73,  Paul  ([e-mail])

------------------------------

End of Info-Hams Digest V94 #1113
******************************